Did you know Eve was not the first woman? 12 ga shotgun ask anyone outfitter in Alaska what they carry you can buy a Shockwave and have more power then any pistol. I agree the best caliber for you is the one that you shoot the best . As you can see with .357 SIG, which has greater velocity and mass than .45 ACP, it still penetrates less. But a small number will not stop unless they’re physically unable to continue. Or shooting people in the back while they are running away. I prefer to carry a 45acp because it rips arms off bodies and a 12 gauge in the house. Where do you stand on the 9mm vs .45ACP debate? 20 ~ 30% accuracy, you have got to be kidding? Both kills, but one kills instantly, the other allows for return fire from your attacker. There are many good rounds for the G19 for social work. When I really want to do some damage my S&W Govt. Some can say that you can carry more rounds ina 9mm than a .45. You effin ROCK! If anything, it's the opposite. I believe you can make darn near any caliber and pistol you have just as flexible as the next caliber. ps I have always thought, why do "they" argue the 9mm hollowpoints advanced and are the same performance as 45 now. The difference between the two cartridges in size is dramatic. practice once a month, and can do 6" group at 8-10 meters with pistol... as far as pretty, get the desert camo... and I had money left over for ammo. When using high-quality ammo at short range, the .45 is undoubtedly one of the best semi-auto handgun cartridges out there. i have used them on Coyotes and have seen the damage they are quite impressive. It’s good advice and have fun digging. Damn good question and I have wondered this myself. It's all about the ammo. I finally settled on the .380acp for awhile because the size of the handguns matched my older 22lr Handgun. I've taken black bear with both the 44 mag. Be situationally aware, proficent and accurate with your weapon and the rest will fall into place. Again, velocity and mass both increase accuracy, but mass seems to get us there more quickly just as we see with penetration, while velocity appears to build energy more quickly. Feel free to check out these sources: It’s a battle-tested gun that’s played an important role in American history during the 20th century. So, pick what you like, as long as the handgun iis suited to the job at hand. Operational goals dictate which weapon to carry. Brownells How To Pages are good research tools and will incite bring you stirring to rapidity fast. Let us also clarify that we are discussing the merits of heavier or lighter grain weights for the same caliber, such as 115 gr vs 147 gr 9mm. When you actually test the loads on living breathing targets (like the Strasbourg test) , that (to me) is the best indicator. Just ask the coroners - they can't tell the difference between someone shot by the two (they came definitely tell when a rifle is involved though). When it comes to the issue of 9mm vs .45, obviously bullet placement and bullet construction is key for stopping an assailant. Years ago when 9mm was the craze I purchased a Browning model 39. 1 shot equals. Going to the store I take my 9 with 124 gr hst. El .45 acp es un proyectil mas pesado de 230 granos o casi 15 gramos de peso, de ahi que su velocidad sea subsonica de apenas 264 mts/seg., pero la ventaja es que con un simple roson pone fuera de combate a un adversario, aunque no necesariamente tenga que matarlo. pros y contras, el 9mm. As a trauma room doctor pointed out in one article I was reading, bullets that leave the body are less effective than ones that stay in. Along with comments as well! Many shooters like to have the .45 ACP for home defense. In a gunfight, every round which is fired, by either side, is potentially lethal. Now you must shout for him to get down/leave, because your selected ammunition could possibly over penetrate and harm someone in another room, and hope the situation doesn't escalate to him reacting in instinctive action by charging or shooting at you. hey’re still sticking to the 9mm caliber design. For one after police and FBI started using back 9mm amount of ammo that burned for arrested increased almost by 50%. Bigger holes are better ones. Hmmm, always been a 1911 45cal chap,although 38cal is certainly better than 9mm which has been known to bounce off suspects believe it or not.Good article,interesting points! We’ve built dozens of AR’s and we’ll cover all the best AR-15 upgrades such as handguards, triggers, BCGs, gas blocks, and more. But a 9mm is going to be nearly as effective as a .45 ACP in almost any circumstance if the shot is a hit to the chest or to a limb. Plus, law enforcement, judges, and the average person usually see revolvers as less threatening than a high capacity auto-loader. I don't believe that MEN can Kill the SOUL....It's GOD BREATHED Genesis 2:7.... and since the "SOUL" is "GOD-BREATHED", then The SOUL is "IMMORTAL".! 1300+ FPS in my Glock 30. I do exactly as you stated, we think alike. i agree and i hear that every day. This has been a very interesting post! I couldn't decide, so I bought (built actually)...BOTH! No more mild steel targets to shoot at, it completely deformed In the old days cowboys put 5 rounds in their 6 shooter and money in the last chamber to be used to bury them. I shoot 240 consistently with my 40 and would never carry a 9 unless I had to. I could not agree with you more on every level. Even the FBI has phased out their .40 S&W sidearm in favor of the 9mm’s improved stopping power and penetration. Also, in a self-defense situation outside of your home, there’s a higher likelihood that you won’t be firing your gun at close range like in a home-defense scenario. My kind of old LADY,but,she's probably too young for me. I currently carry a .40 s&w. The US military adopted the 38 Long Colt in 1892 thinking service men could carry more ammo and the cost to manufacture and transport would be lower per round. The whole point of a defensive firearm is to STOP an attacker as quickly as possible. Yes, 45ACP with defensive loads and .40 S&W with defensive loads do more terminal damage than 9mm with defensive loads. 9 Best Single-Stack 9mm Pistol Options For Concealed Carry (2020), Greatest Cartridges: The Indispensable .45 ACP, First Look: Stoeger STR-9S Combat 9mm Pistol, On Point With Winchester USA Ready Defense Ammo, All Steel, Hammer Fired And Affordable: Sarsilmaz SAR 2000. Adoption of the 9mm by the US military was as much a political decision and had economical considerations as well. Here is what an okd timer officer wrote about the subject. So, caliber choice. What an awesome read. The problem is you can't always be sure of what's behind your target in a defensive situation. Good show! For the United Kingdom, after Dunkirk, the UK lost basically everything. While attending a recent event where .45-caliber semi-automatic handguns, double-action revolvers and single-action revolvers were shot at contact to long-range targets in simulated self-defense situations, it brought to mind the United States’ long-standing love affair with the .45-caliber handgun round. I also carry .357 Sig In the winter time for thicker clothing on my would be enemies. I love Eric's articles. Bullet tech has come a long way for the .45 also.. ya ever seen the hole a .230 grain HST makes?..960 dia. Also, for you suppressor enthusiasts out there, the .45 ACP is an inherently subsonic bullet. And that's why an old lady clings to her old 1911 :). Switching to the 9mm makes them look less sexist. Whatever works for *YOU* is the best choice. 9mm or 45acp? The reason why these calibers don't do any better is that they are more likely to over penetrate (thus doing less energy as much of the bullet's energy is released outside the body). DoubleTap.com uses Speer Gold Dots and has some hot loads. I can’t see the situation where I would have to return fire on someone standing 25 yards away and where I would initiate shooting against someone at that distance. Same old crap different day. I find it funny that people pretend that modern ammo has only improved the 9mm. Thing is, no shoe fits everyone, no caliber fits everyone, I carry a fn fnx 45 tactical every day so capacity is irrelevant I carry 32 rounds of 45 the weight doesn't bother me I can control the recoil well enough follow up shots are quick and on target with a 4-6 inch group speed shooting so I'm staying with my 45 I don't belive the 9mm is less of a bullet i just like the size diffence and the look of a big bore firearm is all i love shooting a 9mm and will definitely buy multiple but for carry 45 and if I need more penetration than get a 10mm which is op compared to 9mm and 45. I am currently looking into a kimber ultra carry ii or a sig p938. It has a capacity of 15+1 and it's a 45 ACP. Saying Islamic Terrorist attacks were really just another "gun violence incident" is a vile misrepresentation of reality. FNX 45 T is my bedstand gun with 15 +1, RMR and 1000 lumen Surefire. doubled in size…and since .45 ACP is bigger to start with, it became massive in the end. There is no perfect handgun, life always has compromises. When it comes to generating energy, all things being equal, increasing velocity does this more quickly than increasing mass. However, if trained professionals only have 20-30% accuracy, it's not unreasonable to think that many of us would only have 15-20% accuracy in a self defense scenario. I can only say this: When your life - and the lives you protect - depend on 18 ready available bullets, you’re going to wish for more. If you want knock down power take up boxing . They are not an ideal  carry gun, howyever. Well written, and no trash talking, rare in the gun world. The switched to the 45 because they needed something that transferred more energy to the target to knock them down. Lots of bullets. 45 is that it's so much easier to see the holes on a B27 target at 25 yards than 9mm holes. The entrance and exit wound will be bigger (with a good hollow point). As to increased penetration, this is only really a concern for LE. The U.S. Navy was the last branch of service to go to the 9mm. I guarantee it's not something you'll want to do again any time soon. I'd love to find a 10mm SubSonic round in the 250gr range, my son has a Kriss Vector with a SilencerCo can. "the 9mm has evolved to the current power of the 45 acp" as if there have been no developments in the 45 acp and the 45 acp has stood still. So say it has a 500 FPS advantage. * Universal availability or AMMO--actually should be #1 !! But this is my decision. My 45 acp has a muzzle velosity of 1000 fps 510 foot lbs. But no more. Yet the disagreement continues. have the .45 pistol/carbine combo, luv 'em. ERIC! Not that a low rent trash bag would be wearing a vest if he decides to break in your casa but with the cost of bullet resistant vests getting cheaper and cheaper any things possible. Firing the 9mm at the range was fun, then I fired the .45...had to peel the smile off of my face. After examining the gunshot wounds, the study ranked accuracy as follows for chest and head shots: .380 ACP (76%), 9mm (74%), .40 S&W (76%), .357 SIG (81%), .45 ACP (85%), and .44 Magnum (88%) (there was no information on 10mm). I also carry the Ruger LC9 as a backup. In other words, when computing energy, you half the mass (as it counts less) and square or exponentially increase the velocity (because it accounts for more). The 9mm vs 45 ACP, the 45 ACP in many opinions is the better round. Since defensive rounds aren't an option, you'll want the highest grain bullet you can get, in a soft point wadcutter—which I don't think are even available in 9mm or .45 ACP. Given these realities of life, it makes sense to carry a handgun chambered in the most effective cartridge available that the shooter can shoot accurately, quickly and can carry discreetly. I'm not sure what 230gr advocates think the advantage of weight is in such a round, but anytime you can get a hollowpoint to open up, it's going to increase the stopping power. , the 9mm was preferred in the field because of the following: LEOs have a 20 to 30% accuracy rate in shootouts, so magazine capacity is important. Ok, I’d agree that’s a pretty reasoned response - it’s a complex issue (eg. Any high penetration rounds for handguns beyond fmj are usually considered as "armor piercing" and therefore illegal in the us. Thanks for bringing our gun culture forward... Cody! Either one will do the Trick unless it happens to be a VERY RARE ATTACKER who has a super tolerance for pain & Blood loss or is on some kind of super man DRUG!! I’ll take the big 45 any day. The report indicated that the new powders and more advanced bullet designs used in current 9mm defensive loads allowed for the caliber to deliver almost similar performance to other calibers, like the .45 ACP, and .40 S&W. But if cost IS an issue, then a well placed shot with a high grain 9mm FMJ is better than a poorly placed .45—what I mean is that you have to get your time in at the range. Momentum is more important than energy for potency. .45 ACP defensive ammo expands too… OK, so I was close. If I did, I would either aviod the area or take a rifle. What ever cal. I don't rely on the bullet (nor the sound of racking the gun, nor the sound of explosion to scare the intruder away). Capacity is a good factor to concern as long as rounds are selectively placed otherwise is just becomes another spray and part scenario. According to a report released in 2014, the 9mm was preferred in the field because of the following: Considering all of the advantages of the 9mm, why would anyone want to use the .45 ACP? So that's another reason why you should get yourself a subnose. As a beginner, I'm going hiking with lots of bears. The .45 ACP is an outstanding choice for self-defense. I'll take the the bigger bullet. Still, if someone breaks in the house I keep a .45 S&W revolver next to the bed. The true stopping power goes to the 45 acp (I.e. Point and shoot, only need to hit my target once...then they're down. Unfortunately, this benefit may be completely canceled out in some states due to magazine restrictions, so it’s a good idea to review any state and local laws before buying a 9mm if you’re set on having a 15+1 capacity gun. My defense weapon is the 45 at this time. .45 ACP Vs 9mm: Does The .45 Still Reign Supreme? At such a distance a 45 round would be a lot more effective than a 9. some info is well hidden for obvious reasons. This is why K.E. And if you shoot at a car,it sounds like a hammer when it hits,and the bad guys know its not a pop gun aiming down on them.They find the gas peddle most rikki tik. I am good with it, plenty of muscle memory and everything flows easily. To say that the 9mm is justbas oowerful than the .44, is totslly nonsense. lbs. Here in my area ( and pretty much every american homeowner) it will be a gunfight that will be fought at close range, fewer than four bullets shot and be over in seconds. The best bullet will fail, if shot placement is poor. You’ll hear a lot of people say that the .45 is better because it shoots a bigger caliber bullet, or that the 9mm is better because of its capacity. I was a die hard .45 fan but when I got the concealed license, it just wasn't comfortable to carry. That's out of over 100 different rounds tested. How can the 9mm "have the same wound tracks as a .45 ACP" when the .45 expands to an inch diameter? I may earn a small part of the sale from links to any products or services on this site. Go out and shoot some pumpkins, you will see the massive difference between 45 and 9mm. Ultimately, both guns are great weapons to have. The law enforcement and military need that exact type of round and the 9mm is the perfect gun for those situations. And, if you are really concerned about penetration on hard targets, then you should probably be carrying a magnum or the .357 SIG or 10mm rounds, not a 9x19mm or .45 ACP. Especially with good hollow points. Whichever caliber you shoot most accurately. Over penetration matters in public too. The 9mm is no pea shooter and a.45 acp is not a one shot giant killer. In case you actually see this, if you are wondering about self defense in the home, you need a shotgun. However, physics will not be denied, and .45 ACP, while slower, is heavier, and will therefore break bones that 9mm would otherwise deflect off of. 45 is a real man stopper but harder to control. What may look like running away to someone not involved, might loot a lot more moving to cover from someone getting, or anticipating getting, shot at. The 45: Has more JHP expansion, More knock down power(even with a FMJ). Every time. Also buy a super bright flash light it will help you see and blind the intruder. But, firing rounds takes time. 30% is being nice. The same gap between the 9mm vs 45 still exists. The best ergonomics, the feel of the recoil, and let's not forget about how gorgeous it is! Now I carry a 3.2 inch barreled 9mm. With a good modern defensive ammo, the 9mm is just as powerful as any .45, just in different ways. Better find out. If you notice, .40 S&W and .45 ACP have the same average energy, but as I showed earlier, .45 ACP penetrates more on gel tests. But the idea that the .45 will stop a man in his tracks no matter where you shoot him is preposterous. for Grizzly. And, once you get below 9 rounds in the weapon, bullet effectiveness becomes much more important. .45 ACP or 9mm? Soul people go to hell. Engaging, defensive and cover fire; they all require lots of bullets. Fair & balanced article. Truthfully, all of these calibers are awesome. In his book, Guns, Bullets, and Gunfights, Jim Cirillo, a real gunfighter and member of the New York Police Department Stakeout Unit, states, “I have seen felons get shot with 158-grain .38 Special, 200- and 230-grain .45 ACP, 115-grain 9mm hollow points, 110-grain .30 Carbine and 12-gauge 1-ounce slugs, and only two of those [many] incidents were one-shot stops.”. es mas liviano y desarrolla una velocidad supersonica, su proyectil aerodinamico y la velocidad de boca, le dan un poder de penetracion, pero mientras no toque un organo vital, el adversario seguira disparando, aun herido por la 9 mm. The 9mm on a per round damage basis is NOT as effective as a 45. Regarding "damage" - both have about the same amount of energy, both leave indistinguishable wound tracks in pliable human tissue - we're not clay. Let me know in the comments below! My favorite, but too heavy for every day is my 4" 41 Mag Smith. Many handgun enthusiasts believe that bigger is, in fact, better and love everything that the .45 ACP has to offer. We really have the best there can be in terms of equipment so learning to employ them is the big issue other than defense against democrats. jack says if you throw a rock to throw the biggest rock. http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php A 9mm will sting ya but a 45 will break your ribs.... Just my two cents. Rifles in almost any caliber and shotguns are much better at stopping an aggressor, but they’re not easy to carry — and, incidentally, they too are not perfect at immediately stopping an attack. Their testing shows seven 9mm rounds that equal or exceed 500 ft lb, with 4 hitting between 511 and 540 ft lb. And the argument has been raging for decades with no clear winner. Good evening! over the past 30 years; it’s not the same underpowered round that the FBI abandoned in the early 1980s. lbs. And i am looking for a model under $450 if you know any goods one please tell me. Certainly this is easy to understand with the .44 Magnum because it's increased velocity and mass produces essentially twice that of 9mm, but you can't say that about the other calibers. The average penetration is as follows: .380 ACP (14.9"), 9mm (17.1"), .40 S&W (17.9"), .357 SIG (18.0"), .45 ACP (18.1"), and 10mm (18.9"). I do take into consideration penetration behind what I am aiming at with the 9mm because of over penetration, but you must ALWAYS be aware of what is behind the perp. The results are as follows: .380 ACP (217 ft. Not dissing the 9, in fact it's what I carry. Look at 5.56 vs 7.62 - the 5.56 makes havoc (spinning widely) when it enters the body which results in way more damage than the difference in diameter. Learn how your comment data is processed. If not then 9mm is an amazing option now. Energy is a square of velocity. For me, it's an SR1911, an old 4x4 Toyota with a stick, and a Pedulla... my choices on all 3 are exactly the same i thought that was oddly coincidental since all 3 are not the most common choices. Did I leave something out? If the latter is true, the .45acp is still a better round. * Lighter gun I shoot the 1911 platform better than any semi auto or revolver I’ve ever shot. While there are a number of compact .45 ACP models on the market, as a general rule, you can expect the 9mm to be more comfortable to carry in a holster. My personal favorite without a doubt is the 1911 design, even though it's heavy, expensive to shoot, and has a limited magazine. 45 auto shells cost more too. I've finally finished up college and paid off my loans, and I'm ready to get back to the range at least weekly to improve my accuracy now that my budget allows. First to mention, we are limited to FMJ rounds, no HP no JHP, just plain FMJ. I'm not sure 45 is a good choice for bear country, most folks choose a large caliber magnum revolver with bonded solids for that job. Personally, I feel 9mm needs a boost in its speeds, because you are sacrificing bore size. Force is mass times acceleration squared. In the real world a single hit with a .45 will stop him. Only because many pokice depts as hiring more and more females. You fire at the armed person/s and take down the threat. The 9mm pistol is the best gun for self defense. The upward recoil maybe lesser but 9mm has a twisting recoil motion. The history they told me was that the military originally was using a 38 something or other, but some weird fanatical types just kept coming at them in one of our many obscure little wars. There is a plethora of loads in both 9mm and .45 that do a better job of expanding and out perform the FBI test rounds in nearly every way. Any cal will work depending on shot placement. To avoid over-penetration, my "first-line" home defense pistol is one of my 9mm handguns. I agree with what the majority of old veterans say. I have always heard greater mass can cause over penetration, and certainly fast and heavy bullets go through people. I had one patient shot 11 times with what looked like a .380 or 9mm, hard to tell on xray. The FPS isn't about dodging the bullet, that would be ridiculous, as you pointed out. I would recon my 5 or close to 6 inch barrel Walther p 22 loaded with them with rapid shots would do okay . For self defense close or far away. But, you say, on TV and in the movies, if a guy gets shot with a handgun, he goes down right away. .380 ACP, 9mm, and .40 S&W are all within the margin of error, but .357 SIG, .45 ACP, and .44 Magnum are not, and they are all heavier and/or faster on average. The Army is in the process of switching over to the SIG Sauer P320…but they’re still sticking to the 9mm caliber design. Then you said because of bullet technology, the .45acp has also improved. He recognizes that getting multiple, fast and accurate hits in vital locations is more important than bullet performance, and if he ever gets to the point that he physically cannot control the .45 ACP adequately, he will consider switching to smaller bullets. Both rounds are more than enough to put a guy down. Some people prefer the heavier feel of a .45 ACP, while others find the light and slim nature of the 9mm to be more easy to use. One of the great things about FIREARMS in AMERICA is VARIETY! FMJ also isn't normally what one would pick if one could have something better. Really? I have played many scenarios in my head and I always conclude that the proximity of an assailant in the street would be greater than the proximity in a home. I started shooting at age 8 I am now 64, aferter seeing many debates on this topic, here is my own opinion the best pistol or rifle for self defense is the one that you can shoot the best. The above writing concludes that my next pistol is .45ACP (already ordered Glock 41 MOS) and if I have to ever use it (and I hope not) - it will be one shot center body mass and wait if bad guy want to do something else. Both are valid points and very understandable reasons to prefer one over the other. Lmao. Unless you through simple logic out the window, the 45 does more damage. When I went to Ballistics101.com a few years ago, I got all the data from the rounds they're tracking and averaged them out per caliber in terms of energy. More stopping power. If a 9mm fails, it won't perform anywhere close to an unexpanded .45 and will punch a tony hole. Terminal performance of modern defensive rounds is relatively similar in ballistics gel. This would most likely result in you firing at the assailant in a less accurate fashion as well as possibly harming others. It’s essentially a 9mm magnum. Owning at least 1 9mm seems practical though, as availability of ammo is likely even in a SHTF situation. If I’m going with a traditional hollow point, give me .45 ACP Federal HST +P at 950 FPS. For the last group, they must no longer be able to breathe, the blood supply must be interrupted so that muscles and organs can no longer function, a bone must be broken so that the person can no longer control the body, or the nervous system must be disrupted so that the brain can no longer send signals to the muscles.